Posts by Juan Viejo2

16

What is the most current information on the Ricco indictments of Don Adams re: Menlo Park?

by TerryWalstrom in

did this quietly go away?.

details, please.

.

Juan Viejo2

The Menlo Park elders tried to do too much with too little. I tried my best to give them the publicity they needed and to find some financing to help them with their case. But they tried too hard to both fight with the Watchtower and to stay within it. They really needed someone who had some experience in these kinds of cases as their lawyer, but even those I spoke to on their behalf made it clear that the state and federal government really don't want to get involved in property disputes with churches. They just assume that if the sign on the door says "Catholic Church" or "First Methodist" that ultimately the church owns that building. If it said Fred's First Baptist, then the court might consider Fred as part owner, but even then the Baptist Church might still be able to grab the property upon his death or if he left town.

The fact that the Cobbs had no ownership rights to the building (they felt they were representing the congregation members), made their case weak. They tried to fight the case based on banking irregularities, slanderous accusations, and corporation law - but their case was too weak to win.

I think the Menlo Park case was one of the factors that caused the Society to change their Kingdom Hall ownership and donation guidelines to make all Kingdom Halls corporate branches by default. Any privately owned KHs were (or will) be sold and congregations merged or moved to new KHs.

While I supported the Menlo Park elders and their Quixotic quest to poke holes in the Watchtower's windmills, the lack of time, money, and qualified legal assistance doomed them to failure. It would have made a good story and I would have gladly helped them write it, but my interest in them and the ultimate demise of the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall expired months ago. Even the members of the Menlo Park KH just wanted them to stop as they realized that the Watchtower would win no matter what and that their actions were just creating deep divisions within the rank and file.

JV

22

Does forever mean forever?

by I_love_Jeff in

1 chronicles 28:9 "and you, my son solomon, acknowledge the god of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought.

if you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

is the word "forever" literal or figurative?

Juan Viejo2

When I was growing up in the late 1950s, there were many half-hour TV shows (most locally produced) that used short stories from older radio shows, comic books and small anthologies . These shows were typically 1/2 hour, but a few were an hour or 90 minutes. Some of the stories were later rewritten and adapted for shows like Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, and similar. Many of these stories had a general plot line that showed some doofus wishing and hoping for success, lots of money, love, or whatever - only to be destroyed by the very thing desired and gained.

One episode (was probably just produced locally and never archived) was about a man who wanted to live forever. Somehow he came across some secret potion that allowed him to achieve his goal. He gets hit by a car in one scene and everyone is standing around saying, "Poor guy never saw it coming and doesn't stand a chance" - and then two hours later he walks out of the Emergency Hospital in perfect shape and he barely remembers what happened. Another show that was adapted for a more modern episode 40 years later had a selfish and greedy scientist and his partner develop an injection that would prevent death under any circumstances - a "live forever pill." Not wanting to share the fortune that would surely come from such a discovery, the scientist kills his partner before that fellow was able to take the injection. He realized that in that state, even if you are convicted and sentenced to death, if you don't die during your execution you are granted a pardon. The twist is, of course, that after he is convicted the court takes pity on him and commutes his death sentence to "life without the possibility of parole." Nasty twist to a perfect scheme that backfired. And he can't even commit suicide.

This got me to thinking about how JWs think about "life everlasting in a paradise earth."

Think about it for a moment (I've posed this question to several JWs who have come to my door)... While the first couple of hundred years might be fun and full of work and play, I'm wondering if you'd get tired of walking your tiger around the block every 4 hours for the next 2-300 years. Would your pets die? Or would they live forever too. After the earth has been turned into a perfect paradise and no one goes hungry and everyone is fit and healthy in a body that is equivalent to a 30-35 year old, what do you have to look forward too? What do you do after 1000 years? One million years? One billion years? Eternity is a freaking long time! Life can get very boring if everything is perfect and has no challenges left to face. While no sickness, war, accidents, or aging will kill you, would there be a point where you just finally say, "Please shoot me. I've had enough!"

JV

42

National Public Radio (NPR) broadcasts today about JWs. Do you want to hear the secrets of what this religion has been keeping under wraps?

by AndersonsInfo in

to all those who frequent this discussion board:.

we just wanted you to know that an investigative public radio program named reveal, produced by cir (center for investigative reporting) and prx, will present today, saturday, february 14th, the results of new investigations uncovering hidden stories.

in this weeks story, there will be three different topics covered.

Juan Viejo2

You can listen to this program now. Go to the main link and you will find the audio link off to the right. It is now live. Be sure to listen and share with your friends.

JV

http://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-use-1st-amendment-to-hide-child-sex-abuse-claims/

37

Who is Gog of Magog? - Watchtower May 2015

by jwleaks in

here we go again... let's study... news report... comment.... who is gog of magog mentioned in the book of ezekiel?.

for a number of years, our publications have explained that gog of magog is the name given to satan the devil after his ouster from heaven.

this explanation was based on the fact that the book of revelation identifies satan the devil as the leader of the worldwide attack on gods people.

Juan Viejo2

So Gog and Magog are not robots?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx961KlJcww

50

Look at this fear mongering graphic from latest WT

by cappytan in

.

Juan Viejo2

Wait a minute!!!

Didn't the Watchtower teach for the past 100 years that Jesus came to his throne in 1914 and his reign began then? Or have I been out so long that sometime after the 1960s they decided that didn't happen?

I'm so confused...

JV

9

"Escape from Paradise"

by zeb in

i have just finished reading brock talons second book (see above).

well worth the read.

terribly honest and humbling to read.

Juan Viejo2

Brock, I like the promo very much. Love the way you show the contents and flip the book around. On the other hand, it seems incomplete somehow - like it should have had some pull quotes or a voice over.

Hope to read it and review it very soon.

JV

13

Hypocrisy@Bethel

by scary21 in

jw
friends

don't know how to do a link but................ video just posted on you-tube called hypocrisy@ bethel by jwfairytail.

he calls bethel several times about the happy@ bethel.

it last like an hour and a half.

Juan Viejo2

I have to say that the caller is way over the top. I'm sure his intent was good and goal was to expose the hypocrisy of the Watchtower Society, but in my opinion (for whatever that is worth) does more harm to the reputation of legitimate critics. This just comes off as terrorizing the volunteers who answer the help lines at Bethel.

While the caller has every right to make his point in any way that he feels will be effective, at the same time anyone that makes me feel sorry for anyone in the Service Department has failed to move WT criticism forward in a positive way.

At the same time I give jwFairyTale credit for his courage and perseverance. On the other hand, any JW or supporter will be turned off by the anger expressed and drawn to support the organization. I just feel that this could have been handled in a more tactful and effective way.

JV

54

Mom says, "CO says there's only 15 years left!"

by Separation of Powers in

i don't typically hear from my mom often, but i tell you, over the past couple of weeks, i have heard from her several times.

you heard the comment about "our way of worship will be altered" and thank you for your posts by the way....but yesterday, she calls and is asking about the kids and then, in typical jw fashion mind you, says:.

"you know, you should really get back to meetings.

Juan Viejo2

My family attended the 1953 New York International Convention in Yankee Stadium. We got there by traveling in our 1941 Chevrolet 2-door sedan (on its third engine). Fortunately my father was a Chevy dealer mechanic so he was able to keep it running during our 5 day trip from southern California to New York City. There were 5 of us in the car, including my sister who sang "How much is that doggie in the window?" almost constantly the entire trip.

What I remember most (besides my sister's singing) was the fact that my mom and dad spoke about Armageddon being just around the corner. They both expected to hear Brother Knorr make a big announcement during the main talk on the last day of the 8-freaking day convention in the summer heat in Yankee Stadium.

We became a very active JW family upon our return and that's pretty much it. I was 10 years old.

Five years later we drove to New York again for the 1958 International Convention. This time we went in our 1955 Chevy sedan with a real V-8 engine. But no air conditioning. At least we had four doors and roll down windows in the back seat. That was the car that my father announced would be our last one before Armageddon came.

Oh boy! We just knew that this time we were really going to get the word. In fact, it was either Brother Knorr or maybe Fred Franz who made a point that we would never again be able to meet in one city because our growth had exploded and Armageddon was so very, very close. When we got back home my parents began making plans to move "where the need was greater" - which they did right after the 1963 Convention.

By then I began to make my move away from the organization - although I was still active, on the public speaker rotation, and was serving as a Book Study Conductor. I let a university scholarship opportunity get away from me and instead was working menial jobs. My parents frequently pressured me to bring my wife and kids and come join them in central Nebraska, hoping that if I would join them in the pioneer service there that I would get my head straight and become a more active JW. Almost every phone call during that era was laced with their suggestions that Armageddon was just a year or two away. And this was before the 1975 debacle.

Each time that I was able to talk to or visit my parents, I was reminded that I needed to repent and get back into the organization because Armageddon was "literally just months away."

So here we are, 40 years after the 1975 failed prophecy - and the Watchtower (and rank and file JWs as well) are still pushing the idea that Armageddon is just over the proverbial hill. And yet everything the Watchtower does goes in the opposite direction. New building and expansion plans? The old windowless Kingdom Halls that would provide protection for the JWs during the beginning of Armageddon are now being replaced by building with thin walls and massive amounts of glass???

But reason is not involved in anything that JWs believe. The Watchtower can change its teachings, its policies, and its financial dealings 180 degrees - and the JWs will just follow along as if they had hooks in their jaws. I know because my own family was like that and some of them still are. Sadly, I guess, for them Armageddon did not come in their generation as they had been promised.

JV

11

First brand new Kingdom Hall built

by Kanon in

jw
friends

well if you check the new pay attention at the meeting video their hall is one of the 1st.

flat roof, lots of glass and a jw.org logo.

lucky them

Juan Viejo2

cappytan - I'm pretty sure that the exterior walls and the interiors could be standardized. The roofs, however, would have to be pitched based on local building codes. Areas with a lot of snow would require roofs that are pitched at around 30 degrees on two or four sides. In deserts, flat metal roofs are quite often acceptable and the norm and will use downspouts to drain off what rain or precipitation might fall.

The bottom line is that the Watchtower will certainly build them as cheaply as they can, and, as they have always tried to do, make sure they don't look like Christendom's churches.

JV

30

I just had a thought about the new KH design

by JeffT in

i've been trying to figure out the purpose of the new (bland, commercial style) building that the gb is pushing.

it is not a design that attracts attention, nor does it offer a lot in future resale value.

it will be more difficult to build than the wood residential style buildings, meaning they can't use their cheap unskilled labor force for a lot of the work.

Juan Viejo2

JeffT - I would say you are on to something. In many small towns, the local clubs like the Elks, Moose, and Knights of Columbus rent out their meeting halls for sales meetings, weddings, and other affairs. It would make sense to have the KHs set up for that type of rental since they sit vacant nearly 90% of the time.

I am sure that the "business" side of Jehovah's holy spirit has noticed this underuse of properties that are set up for such meetings. With audio-visual equipment now being installed in almost every hall and WiFi services being made available, they could easily accommodate almost any secular organization - yes, even Amway type rah-rah meetings in smaller towns.

JV